MORALITY IS CONCERNED WITH TRANSFORMATION OF EGO, WHEREAS
SPIRITUALITY IS TRANSCENDENCE FROM EGO
Dalvir Gill
Comments
Dalvir Gill Exactly Sasha, but Ego is periphery and Egoless-Ego ( Real Self) is the center.
Dalvir Gill Yeah, we are products of many makers. But our ego is basically created by society. We can’t look at ourselves through our own eyes, others define us and we accept it. Here what I was trying to say was that morality (Base of most institutionalized religions) tells us to do the ‘right’ and move away from the ‘wrong’ whereas spirituality (Religion) tells us to move away from ‘unreal’ . Ego is unreal, even though all the things which constitute it are real.
Dalvir Gill Ego is, like Zen say, dust on the mirror. One gotta remove this dust. Thoughts are real, body is real. Just this identification of body with the thoughts is unreal. Your Self doesn’t dissolve, it cannot, only unreal can dissolve. Self is real (in fact the Truth). [Tantra explains this journey the best: Feel: my thoughts, I-ness, internal organs—me ( I-less)].
It’s not that a Buddha doesn’t have thoughts, memory (On the contrary his memory is crystal clear and his thought-process is better channelized. He is the master of his thinking, not the other way around). Even a Buddha uses the word “I”, he just doesn’t identify his self with it any more. Earlier this ‘magic rug’ had a mind of its own, now and only now, it’s being piloted. We already are humans but not living our full potentiality. Afterward, we are not going to become gods/God, just will be living our utmost capacities. If a seed insists that it has no longing to become a tree and flower and bear fruits, I can’t change its mind, just can point that you will still be a seed but who has reached its completeness.
It’s not that a Buddha doesn’t have thoughts, memory (On the contrary his memory is crystal clear and his thought-process is better channelized. He is the master of his thinking, not the other way around). Even a Buddha uses the word “I”, he just doesn’t identify his self with it any more. Earlier this ‘magic rug’ had a mind of its own, now and only now, it’s being piloted. We already are humans but not living our full potentiality. Afterward, we are not going to become gods/God, just will be living our utmost capacities. If a seed insists that it has no longing to become a tree and flower and bear fruits, I can’t change its mind, just can point that you will still be a seed but who has reached its completeness.
Singh Sarbjit Yes 100 % … Lust,Rage,Greed,Attachment and Ego are part of a life. A spiritual person always keep balance of all five. Need help from commpassion, Love, Humility, contentment and Truth. . Mia well said, but Dalvir make his point too.
Singh Sarbjit Dalvir is special and have such a DNA , Once something in his mind,he will go to roots of that….love it.
Dalvir Gill Purpose: End the suffering. If someone is not suffering he doesn’t need to do anything. Why drink if there is no thirst.
You may have said lightly but that is exactly the purpose of this dust (Ego). You inner Truth is bound to burn you whole. (When people start meditating sincerely they all report some sadness descending on them.)
We all have experience this (Now & Here will do or make your own name), desire of the unknown can’t arise. Peak of an orgasm, totally merged in any of your daily-routine talks, creating something, sneezing etc., couldbe a mundane task but everyone has experienced this “No-Mind” without realizing it. Thirst is their.
That’s where I saw morality and religion to be different. Morality refines your ego, makes it subtle and religion removes it altogether.(And I repeat that only unreal can dissolve, for me that’s the proof that ego is unreal, I am not calling it fake. For the sleeping it’s the only thing which is not fake.) Enlightened one doesn’t quit his day-job, just he is not doer anymore, things still get done through him.
The build-up your ego is done through others. Even simple things as if your body is beautiful or ugly, you can’t rely on your own eyes and a mirror, others decide it for you, and you accept.
You are real, mirror is real, but that reflection in the mirror is not real, even if you can photograph it.
That Tantra technique I mentioned starts from this. Feel: Your thoughts aren’t yours. People have died for the thoughts they thought were theirs, But once you start this inward journey, that’s the first feeling which comes that these thoughts are just passing clouds and your consciousness is like the sky.
Your mind can influence you (always has been), no hard to influence others and of course in this world it is being played that everyone is telling how great Emperor’s clothes look.
You may have said lightly but that is exactly the purpose of this dust (Ego). You inner Truth is bound to burn you whole. (When people start meditating sincerely they all report some sadness descending on them.)
We all have experience this (Now & Here will do or make your own name), desire of the unknown can’t arise. Peak of an orgasm, totally merged in any of your daily-routine talks, creating something, sneezing etc., couldbe a mundane task but everyone has experienced this “No-Mind” without realizing it. Thirst is their.
That’s where I saw morality and religion to be different. Morality refines your ego, makes it subtle and religion removes it altogether.(And I repeat that only unreal can dissolve, for me that’s the proof that ego is unreal, I am not calling it fake. For the sleeping it’s the only thing which is not fake.) Enlightened one doesn’t quit his day-job, just he is not doer anymore, things still get done through him.
The build-up your ego is done through others. Even simple things as if your body is beautiful or ugly, you can’t rely on your own eyes and a mirror, others decide it for you, and you accept.
You are real, mirror is real, but that reflection in the mirror is not real, even if you can photograph it.
That Tantra technique I mentioned starts from this. Feel: Your thoughts aren’t yours. People have died for the thoughts they thought were theirs, But once you start this inward journey, that’s the first feeling which comes that these thoughts are just passing clouds and your consciousness is like the sky.
Your mind can influence you (always has been), no hard to influence others and of course in this world it is being played that everyone is telling how great Emperor’s clothes look.
Singh Sarbjit Mia….yes, limits are always good. We are human and we will make mistakes and we learn. Learning and listening are major in human life to grow as a person. One will be perfect in his eye but hard to convince other person to that one is perfect. Only way is, let love keep flowing and other will look at it. Give other person time, will keep learning slowly and steadily ….but make sure without any effort to change other person. Simple human being always glow….his face (way of life) glow always guide other person without any effort.
Singh Sarbjit Mia…message or words are always common….we all learn..Mia why worry…Mr. Perfect creates everything perfect….. just keep smile and give the worry away, As you said before keep it simple as you feel comfortable. All the things belongs to you, started from you ad end with you….don’t worry…
🙂
🙂Singh Sarbjit Swami Vivekananda’s answer:
“The Olympian Willpower.”
What is it?
The only Reality.
Whose is it?
Yours, only yours, absolutely yours.
“The Olympian Willpower.”
What is it?
The only Reality.
Whose is it?
Yours, only yours, absolutely yours.
Singh Sarbjit Just we are all human…we do make mistakes…I do lot still continuously….just forgive and let it go….when you forgive and let it go.
Singh Sarbjit Thanks to Dalvir Singh Gill…who give us chance to learn…Love his every comment…keep it flowing and we all learn.
Neera Gupta @ Mia I understand what u mean….and yes I too try ‘preserving myself’ I withdraw………but over the years the instincts have developed to the point where I am usually able to see through , so I dont got that close in the first place.
But if u see it from other side -the fakers & liars have their own insecurities or their past experiences that makes them so…and most of the time they are not even sure who they are being ‘truthful’ to-others or themselves.
Neera Gupta @ Dalvir- I really like your phrase that build up of ego is done through others. Never thought of it that way……goes deep.
Food for thought for the day
Food for thought for the day
Yazdy Palia I would agree with Mia Feigelson to some extent. One has to be coherent. I would only suggest, please read Virtue of Selfishness for a definition of Ego.
Yazdy Palia Mia I will try to put it here, however before that I would like share the definition of Objective ethics, values and its result the pride.
The Objectivist ethics holds man’s life as the standard of value—and his own life as the ethical purpose of every individual man.
The difference between “standard” and “purpose” in this context is as follows: a “standard” is an abstract principle that serves as a measurement or gauge to guide a man’s choices in the achievement of a concrete, specific purpose. “That which is required for the survival of man qua man” is an abstract principle that applies to every individual man. The task of applying this principle to a concrete, specific purpose—the purpose of living a life proper to a rational being—belongs to every individual man, and the life he has to live is his own.
Man must choose his actions, values and goals by the standard of that which is proper to man—in order to achieve, maintain, fulfill and enjoy that ultimate value, that end in itself, which is his own life.
Value is that which one acts to gain and/or keep—virtue is the act by which one gains and/or keeps it. The three cardinal values of the Objectivist ethics—the three values which, together, are the means to and the realization of one’s ultimate value, one’s own life—are: Reason, Purpose, Self-Esteem, with their three corresponding virtues: Rationality, Productiveness, Pride.
Productive work is the central purpose of a rational man’s life, the central value that integrates and determines the hierarchy of all his other values. Reason is the source, the precondition of his productive work—pride is the result.
Here friends I would like to add the link for further study.
http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer…
Miracle Queyyoom Khan dalvir, spritual master……?
Inderjit Grewal Where does the ego come from and start to develop in a persons life and how can it be destroyed?
Yazdy Palia Ego need not be destroyed. The modern philosophers have given the stigma to the concept Ego. It is actually the opposite. A person who has ego never shows off. It is only the person who does not have a self esteem who tries to show off and throw his weight around.
Dalvir Gill Bobby, the only one point where I agree with Yazdy is that ego need not to be destroyed. Rather, I will say that you cannot. You can not defeat a shadow. It is not that you create a void inside and then some light fills that void in. We are not creating something inside, it was there all the time, unnoticed, and the ego was our device used to ignore it. I will repeat that Tantra (technique) here again:
Feel: my thoughts, I-ness, internal organs—me ( I-less).
When you are really ‘studying’ yourself that’s the first realization that your thoughts aren’t yours.
Feel: my thoughts, I-ness, internal organs—me ( I-less).
When you are really ‘studying’ yourself that’s the first realization that your thoughts aren’t yours.
Dalvir Gill Pratibha, I still believe that morality is a social value (nothing against it) and spirituality is an individual one. And that morality just refines ones ego and ego is not in the equation when we are talking about ‘other’ realm. (And While agreeing with Ms Rand :
Selfishness is a virtue in spiritual realms but a vice in society.
Another Repetition:
A spiritual being is amoral ( NO morality or immorality can exist there.)
Selfishness is a virtue in spiritual realms but a vice in society.
Another Repetition:
A spiritual being is amoral ( NO morality or immorality can exist there.)
Arpna Gill @Dalvir such an enlightening nd engrossing discussion going on,,,hmm just getting wiser frm it but i’m sooo simple or perhaps ‘moron’ to cmmnt on it ,,,,fr me ego is only knowing ur ownself nd nothing beyond it ,,its in knowing myself i feel empty nd so empty to even cmmnt anything,,,,
Dalvir Gill Arpna, Once a disciple came to the Master and reported that,”Now, I have nothing inside me but emptiness.” Master said,”Go, throw this emptiness away.”
Arpna Gill ok tell me where to throw,,,,,,
Dalvir Gill Arpna, If one is saying that one’s mind is without any thought/s (empty)
it’s still a thought, needs to be thrown out.
Through it back where it came from, or in your own words,”No where or now here.”
[No where and everywhere are really the same thing as everybody or nobody is. The final realization for Gautum Buddha was Nirvana (a negative term indicating nothingness, nobody-ness, nowhere-ness) and the same state was told by tantra {as By some Aham Brahmasmi = An al-Haq= I am Him(God)} to be everywhere, everything.
Arpana, we can look at the Whole Existence either way, If all this is an endless ‘Sunayata’ (Emptiness), then your emptiness is barred. That’s exactly what that Sutra meant, Once you have dropped that bar it doesn’t really makes any difference if you call that I am everywhere or that I am nowhere. (In fact ‘I’ has only meaning if there is any ‘You’ (other) present, soon the realization comes that ‘I’ is not limited to this body that this whole existence is one (this body might be nearest corner/end of this all) ‘I’ drops automatically. Before that You can interpret it to be anything, even emptiness, and note that up till that point it’s your ’emptiness’. Body is a reality and we seem to call it our own, (All the good things are because of soul and for all the bad things we blame body, For lust we blame body and compassion/love is heart=soul’s doing; we have created a pseudo self.) After realization, one can’t see his body or soul to be any separate.
I am lost now. Just throw it anywhere, same way thoughts were a burden, this emptiness is also a burden, asubtle one and that’s why even heavier.
it’s still a thought, needs to be thrown out.
Through it back where it came from, or in your own words,”No where or now here.”
[No where and everywhere are really the same thing as everybody or nobody is. The final realization for Gautum Buddha was Nirvana (a negative term indicating nothingness, nobody-ness, nowhere-ness) and the same state was told by tantra {as By some Aham Brahmasmi = An al-Haq= I am Him(God)} to be everywhere, everything.
Arpana, we can look at the Whole Existence either way, If all this is an endless ‘Sunayata’ (Emptiness), then your emptiness is barred. That’s exactly what that Sutra meant, Once you have dropped that bar it doesn’t really makes any difference if you call that I am everywhere or that I am nowhere. (In fact ‘I’ has only meaning if there is any ‘You’ (other) present, soon the realization comes that ‘I’ is not limited to this body that this whole existence is one (this body might be nearest corner/end of this all) ‘I’ drops automatically. Before that You can interpret it to be anything, even emptiness, and note that up till that point it’s your ’emptiness’. Body is a reality and we seem to call it our own, (All the good things are because of soul and for all the bad things we blame body, For lust we blame body and compassion/love is heart=soul’s doing; we have created a pseudo self.) After realization, one can’t see his body or soul to be any separate.
I am lost now. Just throw it anywhere, same way thoughts were a burden, this emptiness is also a burden, asubtle one and that’s why even heavier.
Dalvir Gill Pratibha, There’s not a single word I can add to what you have said. A spiritual being is not anti-social, he cannot be. In a moral person all virtues are cultivated with much effort and contained even with a harder one but (like Hisham was saying) in a spiritual being they come ‘naturally’ as his self has been dissolved and being a part of the Whole he can’t work/behave/exist any other way. (Brahm Gyani te Kuchh bura na bhiya.–5th Sikh Master)
And Pratibha, using your words I can say,”Transcendence of Ego is necessary to exist spiritually as transformation of Ego is to live morally.
[Unless lived/experienced, a thought is still a thought however great or even golden and it’s not real for one even it’s truth for the one who gave it to you.
And Pratibha, using your words I can say,”Transcendence of Ego is necessary to exist spiritually as transformation of Ego is to live morally.
[Unless lived/experienced, a thought is still a thought however great or even golden and it’s not real for one even it’s truth for the one who gave it to you.
Haiku World 